Talk:Angel
Angels are directly mentioned in DMC1 *Mundus is supposed to be Satan/Pluto. *Angels and heavens are mentioned in manga. *If you take into consideration that angels and demons were the one species, basically Lucia might be an angel. *The demons in dmc3 might be fallen female angels. *Angelos in dmc4 are holy knights whose souls were removed and a harvested demon essence was put inside, and after the process was done then their human souls returned to the bodies. *The only difference between the two is that angels are said to be good and demons bad. *If you take this into account, Credo might really have been an angel since he was basically a good guy only brainwashed by Pope's words. *wing talisman is made from angel feather Elveonora 16:21, December 4, 2011 (UTC) :(Sorry for editing your post but that formatting was horrible.) :*Direct quote please. :*Well, you're right on this one. Partially. :: Devil May Cry: "There’s a word left by a notable prophet when he visited this castle. It states, "Pluto shall come on the promised date and separate heaven and earth. One with black wings of treachery shall come and stand in Pluto’s way." :: Devil May Cry: "There's something written, "The confronter of the path, Pluto's dragon. Prove your bravery with your sword and the dragon will fall in its own flame."" :However, the fact that he is Pluto has little to do with the discussion (Pluto is a Greek god), and there is nothing direct on him being Satan, if you don't count his eyes. :*In Devils-lair translation there is no mention of angels, except for one time when Arkham says that demons to him "appear as angels". He also refers to Demon world as "Heaven". Sadly, I don't have Tokyopop translation, so I can't say if that has something useful for this. :*'If' they are. It is worth some digging in, although I can't remember anything directly saying that from the top of my head. Also, if they are, than all of demons could be considered angels, not just Lucia. :*Nope, they are demons. To quote library file: :: Devil May Cry 3: Dante's Awakening, Lesser Demons File — The Fallen: "A demon who fell from grace for lying and deceiving its victims. Her beautiful wings close to form an invincible shield. Her open belly is her only weakness." :*Wrong. Or, at least, uncertain. We don't know the details of their making. The only source we have is this: :: Devil May Cry 4, Lesser Demons File — Alto Angelo: "A knight turned demon via the Ascension Ceremony, the Alto Angelo has donned the armor of a Bianco Angelo to lead them into battle. It is said that an Alto Angelo can raise the abilities of the Bianco Angelo around it." :: Devil May Cry 4, Lesser Demons File — Bianco Angelo: "A man-made soldier made from the fragment of a demon known as the "dark angel". Filled with either a human or demonic soul, it carries out its master’s orders with mechanical precision." :If you take this info from novel state so, and, if you could kindly do so, provide a quote. :*Speculation. If I'm wrong, provide a proof please. :*Now this is just speculation. :*You could've just added it. However, in itself this quote proves little I'm afraid. :My signature is NOT short! 17:49, December 4, 2011 (UTC) * Do you have DMC1 ? I no longer own my ps2. :I remember angels mentioned in dmc1 * "There’s a word left by a notable prophet when he visited this castle. It states, "Pluto shall come on the promised date and separate heaven and earth. One with black wings of treachery shall come and stand in Pluto’s way." :Basically saying Mundus will separate earth and heaven. :This is weird as Mundus wanted to combine the demon and human world into one as it once was. :The one with black wings of treachery is most likely Sparda. :"There's something written, "The confronter of the path, Pluto's dragon. Prove your bravery with your sword and the dragon will fall in its own flame." :The confronter and pluto's dragon(is confronter even an english word ? 0_o) is Sparda, path being demon rule. :Most likely reference to Sparda being brave to oppose Mundus and as he sealed his power into his sword, it was his downfall since he most likely became a human/old/mortal or something. * prince of darkness, his appearance is angelic, his throne room. He looks pretty Luciferish to me. * well its said human and demon world were once connected, thinking there are demons and no angels is weird since as I said the line from dmc1 mention angels. :Elveonora 02:48, December 9, 2011 (UTC) Response in filling up missing info This page was created by me last week with bare information (I separated the Angels into the Demons page since I thought they are totally different races). You can use the lists above to expand and help this page. KevzMarz 10:35, December 7, 2011 (UTC) :Why was the Fallen from DMC3 deleted from this page? KevzMarz 04:51, December 8, 2011 (UTC) ::Strictly speaking, it is irrelevant to the subject. They have somewhat angelic appearance, but that's about it. And even if we were going to add all angelic-looking demons, there should be several more, like Mundus, Lucia, that priest from anime, sins from manga... My signature is NOT short! 10:34, December 8, 2011 (UTC) :::Isn't the fallen demon an fallen angel ? :::Also I think everything that resembles an angel should be listed. :::Elveonora 23:40, December 8, 2011 (UTC) ::::We don't know that. Not counting the only quote we have, which is from very inaccurate translation of spin-off material, angels are never discussed in DMC. ::::I'm not so sure if it should be listed. Maybe we could create a separate section for this, but I'd like to hear some response from other admins first. My signature is NOT short! 01:16, December 9, 2011 (UTC) ::::Angels are mentioned few times. ::::Section like "angelic like beings" or something. ::::Elveonora 01:36, December 9, 2011 (UTC) ::We don't have a page about Insects that lists all characters with vaguely insectoid features. It's dishonest to include stuff that is explicitly not an angel on this page, when the series generally claims that there's no such thing as angels. ::However, the dub of the manga is as much an official DmC production as the games. The material in it should be included, even if we have to treat it as a "separate continuity" to the Japanese material.(ಠ_ೃ)﻿ Bully! 04:44, December 9, 2011 (UTC) I wanted to give an argument similar to that :) Oh well. Guess I should put up a list "all the times when an angel is said or referenced" for references here. Add if you find something, I often miss things, even though I try hard not to. *DMC - Nelo Angelo (name and knight-like appearence), Mundus (appearance, references to Satan). There is also this little quote from one of the interactables in mission 2: "It’s a statue of an angel, the guardian of a god." although I don't know which, since I digged it up in Kryten's notes. :P *DMC2 - Lucia and Secretaries have bird-like DT. *DMC3 - The infamous Fallen; demon bells are described as "skeletal angels". *DMC4 - all the talk about "I am an angel". Precisely... Agnus: "Ahhh, His Holiness has been reborn. As an angel! And soon, soon, so shall I." Credo: "I have been chose to take the next step in evolution to become something far more than just human. I am an angel!" Also the Angelos library files, already linked. *TAS - An angel-like (more like Mundus-looking actually) demon priest from episode 4, "Rolling Thunder". *Manga - the quote in References section of this very article. *Novels - ??. My signature is NOT short! 04:56, December 9, 2011 (UTC) "when the series generally claims that there's no such thing as angels" lol, when ? i actually think it pretty much says there are angels ... another flaw in your logic. this guy on canon talk forum page says tham manga is canon. then if manga is canon then angels are surely in the universe. And im sure they are mentioned in dmc1, someone if could check because i cant. saying there are demons but no angels would be like saying there are dogs but no wolves. Elveonora 05:35, December 9, 2011 (UTC) :I checked DMC's game script and Kryten's list of interactables' lines. I also glanced through some library files and didn't find anything there either. Considering that covers, like, all of the text in the game either you mistake it for something else (are you sure it isn't the line I listed above?), I missed something (even though I checked it several times) or the line simply doesn't exist. :Claiming that "angels exist because demons do" is, frankly, childish. First, the universe is fictional, which means that creators can do whatever they want with it (including making that dogs exist and wolves don't), second, it is actually pretty common. Check here for example. :Well, considering all the discussion, I'd leave their existence as uncertain. There is some implication (just implication) that angels are the same as demons, but it is never (except one instance) directly stated. The instance, the manga quote, firstly, appears only in English translation, secondly, is the only quote of this sort in the entire franchise, and thirdly, looks somewhat off-handish in the context. Is this enough of a logic to prove it? My signature is NOT short! 15:09, December 9, 2011 (UTC) :I surely may be mistaken ... I'm a human after all: :I will wait for the HD collection and check it myself, for the time being it's not that important for be it something to worry about. :Take into consideration that the characters do mention angels. :Saying "I'm an angel" at least indicate the people in DMC universe do believe in angels. :I'm not saying the holy knights are angels (its stated they are demons, but I think theres little difference), but they do believe they are. :You know, feathers, holy power, light, halo etc. :Even Credo died and what left of him were golden dust/holy light. :Holy Knights and Credo are the only "demons" with the stuff said above also when they are dying, they reach for heavens. :This could indicate that when the knights are good and really do believe they are to become an angels, they transformation is according to so. :So thinking you have been transformed into something that do not exist is silly. :That would be like I have never seen nor heard about a dog in my life but I'm sure this little barking being is a dog. * Mundus: :"Mundus's three eyes are likely a reference to Satan, who is portrayed with three faces in Dante Alighieri's The Divine Comedy. Satan is also considered the "Prince of This World" and the "Prince of Darkness", both titles which Mundus shares with him. Mundus's pseudo-angelic appearance also coincides with Satan's role as a fallen angel within the Christian Faith" :Mundus translates into "The world" another indication of him being Satan. :Also it's wrong, Satan is not said to be a fallen angel just in Christianity. :Also this may differ from religion to religion but in some cases Satan and Lucifer are said to be 2 beings. :Remember that Devil may cry and Bayonetta are both based off Divine Comedy and made by the same person. :Don't want to speculate, but Kamiya himself a few times stated that Bayonetta is the same universe as his original Devil may cry, later asked he does not answer (Will try to find one case) :Also add that Enzo,Antonio Redgrave,Eva and The Legendary Dark Knight are mentioned in the game ... * And yes, one quote is enough to prove it. Non-logic would be for just a one quote to not prove it. :But I disagree with manga being canon, but to that later. * "The Fallen" must have been an angels. Original devils/demons are said to be fallen angels and if these are/were not angels, "A demon who fell from grace for lying and deceiving its victims" :How can a demon fall from grace ? (it has none) for deceiving its victims ? (its supposed to do so) :A demon that fell was an angel. Again, that would be like saying that dogs have been domesticated but wolves do not exist. * The Wing Talisman I guess is another proof : Elveonora 17:21, December 9, 2011 (UTC) DmC from the latest interview it seems that Angels will appear in DmC as enemies or at least characters. Elveonora 22:45, February 8, 2012 (UTC) :You wouldn't happen to have a link to that, would you? We could add it to the DmC page if you do. --Anobi 05:06, February 9, 2012 (UTC) :Pointless to make a new topic, but aren't those winged women in Lilith's club also angel?Elveonora (talk) 19:02, November 5, 2012 (UTC) :::If you're talking about the enemies that swoop in and use a spear, I think they're demons, given they look a lot like the Stygians and the other demon enemies. It's entirely possible they are Angels, but so far signs point to them just being another demon-type of the flying variety. If you're talking about the waitresses, that's possible too, but otherwise it might just be a costume they wear as part of a theme in the nightclub. Derekoe|Hot-blooded God of Guns| (talk) 19:08, November 5, 2012 (UTC) :::Yeah, I meant the strippersElveonora (talk) 15:06, November 6, 2012 (UTC)